As some of you may know, I have a bit of an interest in how trend moves have historically formed and failed.
I am interested in the subject generally, with me having put a fair amount of time into just understanding the basic timeline of historic events, reading the different studies on market hypothesis' and checking how these perform or fail in the fat tail events, but when it comes to trading I have a few main interests.
--How can we approximate what zone a top would generally come if we're topping.
--How do we survive being early on that.
--How do we know it's wrong and we should flip long.
--The typical break/capitulation level for bear trends.
--Where we tend to bull trap from.
--Styles bull traps and market recoveries.
--How markets generally bottom after extreme events.
The answer all of those questions is an optimistic endeavour but these are the main things you have to understand to make it viable to be able to bet on the major turning points in these fat tail events and to be able to take exposure without going broke if you get it wrong. Be that trying to buy lows or fade highs.
During the last bear move we posted short analysis at the top, throughout and then posted the different possible bull traps while we were at the low. To this point, the general norms of the historic analysis have held up. Now, we're into the 86 fib which has tended to be a critical area for the trend decision.
In this piece I'm going to go through the main types of reactions we get here and how one can aim to make a plan that will be profitable in all types of scenarios.
Many of the things I'll be discussing are generic retracement rules and if you follow my work you'll know them from my 76/86 theories that I discuss regularly, but all of what I am about to cover here also checks out on the SPX chart. I have manually went through every single drop of over 10% in the SPX and then modelled the different rallies from there. Be them recoveries or crashes - these rules tended to be useful in most of them.
Let me start by giving a very brief history of my use of the 76/86 fibs. The original rules I had for this was a reversal should come just a little bit before the 76 fib. I'd buy/sell close to the 76 fib and use a 76 hit as my stop loss. These were great times. It would work a lot and it'd pay over 1:10 RR sometimes when it did.
Over time this became a little harder and I had to increase my tolerance zone for spikes above the 76. My rules then became to trade close to the 76 and if the 86 hit then I'd stop out because I think it'll go higher. Most of the time we pullback first, but the 86 hitting I used to class as a failure of the reversal.
This worked well (Albeit with reduced RR) for a long time but during the 2022 bear market this theory has significant failures with us tending to trade to the 86 and then put in full reversals. Given my bias is trade the reversal on the 76 and expect continuation if the 86 hits, this was a problem. My default rules would pick up losing signals on both sides. So I had make some further amendments to the idea in 2022.
I've used the general idea for about a decade in total now, with some minor adjustments along the way.
This framing is important because the general default rule I'd have here is now we 86 has hit we probably pullback a bit but it's a net bull bias- however, that strategy has weakened and I have to be a bit more agnostic now. Before, by this point I only have bull plans and ideas of how to stop out if I am wrong. With the new tendency for 86 hits, I need a bear plan also.
First we'll deal with the outcome that I find happens least often, the clean 86 break.
I hate this move. Be it on the upside or the downside I always find it easer to make money when something happens at the 86. I don't even care what. When it trends through I don't expect it because it only happens about 20% of the time and I can end up in a tricky situation where the market jumps from one resistance level to the next and I never want to buy and generally am bias towards fading the move - which can go really bad if the reversal thesis is wrong.
When this clean break is made it's usually built in a trending way. Higher lows in an uptrend. I've found the best way to deal with this risk is if there's any credible risk of the 86 breaking I start to buy all the dips when they're at deep retracement levels. What I "Think" will happen doesn't matter. I know if we head into the type of break I dislike I'll do poorly if I do not start to fade the 86 early. I'd rather lose one or two small trades trying this than end up in a situation where I find it hard to know what to do for months.
If we get back above the 86, this is the plan. Just buy all the dips until it fails. If it fails early I'll probably lose 2-3% over a few trades. If one trade works and I lose after I'll end up even. If they all work I'll end up with over 30% for my 3% risk. Although I do not "Think" this move is likely, when you can risk 3% to make 30% and cover yourself from the things that are tough to deal with - that's a good deal.
The most typical result in SPX history (and in general 86 theory) is we make a crash like move off it but this only goes to the 50 fib.
Very common. You'll find this in SPX recoveries from as early as 1920. Obvious ones after the 2008 crash etc.
This is a net super bullish setup but we'd be in for a drop of about 10% first. It's the most common outcome and if it was not for the need to edit rules due to stop hunting this would be the only main plan I had right now. The plan would be to trade this and everything else would be planning how to not lose too much if something else happened.
If the 5o fib breaks, we tend to capitulate to the 23 fib.
From here is a bit of a tricky spot because a lot of different types of things can happen but inside the context of the overall move we have, this could foreshadow a massive break. If and when we get there I'll discuss more about the tactical trading decisions one can make in this area.
I think for the bear thesis to have a chance we need to the monthly candle to close with a wick on the top. A drop of several 100 points into the end of the month.
Giving the size and speed I'd expect this move to be, it'd almost certainly be a news related move.
If that marker hits, then we'll discuss the decisions to be made into the support levels.
If we uptrend above the 86, then it's buy all dips until it stops working, review after.
But one thing is for sure, this is historically the riskiest spot to be short term bullish. Even in a bull setup, you're wrong 3/4 times on long entries here. In a bear setup, things get really nasty.
Bulls should be super careful if the 86 can not break. Bears should be careful if it does.
The historical analysis clearly shows if you make mistakes here on either side you can take crippling losses. No one should be overconfident at these prices (most people are though).
The bears have the edge for the next 10% under the 86 but if they are wrong there are so many different ways it can end up terribly.
Bulls are at the point where they should be most careful, but as it generally is - this is when they feel bulletproof.
Interesting spot.
For my part, I plan for everything and trade what happens.
Being profitable is more important than making bold and clever predictions if you do this for a living.
I am interested in the subject generally, with me having put a fair amount of time into just understanding the basic timeline of historic events, reading the different studies on market hypothesis' and checking how these perform or fail in the fat tail events, but when it comes to trading I have a few main interests.
--How can we approximate what zone a top would generally come if we're topping.
--How do we survive being early on that.
--How do we know it's wrong and we should flip long.
--The typical break/capitulation level for bear trends.
--Where we tend to bull trap from.
--Styles bull traps and market recoveries.
--How markets generally bottom after extreme events.
The answer all of those questions is an optimistic endeavour but these are the main things you have to understand to make it viable to be able to bet on the major turning points in these fat tail events and to be able to take exposure without going broke if you get it wrong. Be that trying to buy lows or fade highs.
During the last bear move we posted short analysis at the top, throughout and then posted the different possible bull traps while we were at the low. To this point, the general norms of the historic analysis have held up. Now, we're into the 86 fib which has tended to be a critical area for the trend decision.
In this piece I'm going to go through the main types of reactions we get here and how one can aim to make a plan that will be profitable in all types of scenarios.
Many of the things I'll be discussing are generic retracement rules and if you follow my work you'll know them from my 76/86 theories that I discuss regularly, but all of what I am about to cover here also checks out on the SPX chart. I have manually went through every single drop of over 10% in the SPX and then modelled the different rallies from there. Be them recoveries or crashes - these rules tended to be useful in most of them.
Let me start by giving a very brief history of my use of the 76/86 fibs. The original rules I had for this was a reversal should come just a little bit before the 76 fib. I'd buy/sell close to the 76 fib and use a 76 hit as my stop loss. These were great times. It would work a lot and it'd pay over 1:10 RR sometimes when it did.
Over time this became a little harder and I had to increase my tolerance zone for spikes above the 76. My rules then became to trade close to the 76 and if the 86 hit then I'd stop out because I think it'll go higher. Most of the time we pullback first, but the 86 hitting I used to class as a failure of the reversal.
This worked well (Albeit with reduced RR) for a long time but during the 2022 bear market this theory has significant failures with us tending to trade to the 86 and then put in full reversals. Given my bias is trade the reversal on the 76 and expect continuation if the 86 hits, this was a problem. My default rules would pick up losing signals on both sides. So I had make some further amendments to the idea in 2022.
I've used the general idea for about a decade in total now, with some minor adjustments along the way.
This framing is important because the general default rule I'd have here is now we 86 has hit we probably pullback a bit but it's a net bull bias- however, that strategy has weakened and I have to be a bit more agnostic now. Before, by this point I only have bull plans and ideas of how to stop out if I am wrong. With the new tendency for 86 hits, I need a bear plan also.
First we'll deal with the outcome that I find happens least often, the clean 86 break.
I hate this move. Be it on the upside or the downside I always find it easer to make money when something happens at the 86. I don't even care what. When it trends through I don't expect it because it only happens about 20% of the time and I can end up in a tricky situation where the market jumps from one resistance level to the next and I never want to buy and generally am bias towards fading the move - which can go really bad if the reversal thesis is wrong.
When this clean break is made it's usually built in a trending way. Higher lows in an uptrend. I've found the best way to deal with this risk is if there's any credible risk of the 86 breaking I start to buy all the dips when they're at deep retracement levels. What I "Think" will happen doesn't matter. I know if we head into the type of break I dislike I'll do poorly if I do not start to fade the 86 early. I'd rather lose one or two small trades trying this than end up in a situation where I find it hard to know what to do for months.
If we get back above the 86, this is the plan. Just buy all the dips until it fails. If it fails early I'll probably lose 2-3% over a few trades. If one trade works and I lose after I'll end up even. If they all work I'll end up with over 30% for my 3% risk. Although I do not "Think" this move is likely, when you can risk 3% to make 30% and cover yourself from the things that are tough to deal with - that's a good deal.
The most typical result in SPX history (and in general 86 theory) is we make a crash like move off it but this only goes to the 50 fib.
Very common. You'll find this in SPX recoveries from as early as 1920. Obvious ones after the 2008 crash etc.
This is a net super bullish setup but we'd be in for a drop of about 10% first. It's the most common outcome and if it was not for the need to edit rules due to stop hunting this would be the only main plan I had right now. The plan would be to trade this and everything else would be planning how to not lose too much if something else happened.
If the 5o fib breaks, we tend to capitulate to the 23 fib.
From here is a bit of a tricky spot because a lot of different types of things can happen but inside the context of the overall move we have, this could foreshadow a massive break. If and when we get there I'll discuss more about the tactical trading decisions one can make in this area.
I think for the bear thesis to have a chance we need to the monthly candle to close with a wick on the top. A drop of several 100 points into the end of the month.
Giving the size and speed I'd expect this move to be, it'd almost certainly be a news related move.
If that marker hits, then we'll discuss the decisions to be made into the support levels.
If we uptrend above the 86, then it's buy all dips until it stops working, review after.
But one thing is for sure, this is historically the riskiest spot to be short term bullish. Even in a bull setup, you're wrong 3/4 times on long entries here. In a bear setup, things get really nasty.
Bulls should be super careful if the 86 can not break. Bears should be careful if it does.
The historical analysis clearly shows if you make mistakes here on either side you can take crippling losses. No one should be overconfident at these prices (most people are though).
The bears have the edge for the next 10% under the 86 but if they are wrong there are so many different ways it can end up terribly.
Bulls are at the point where they should be most careful, but as it generally is - this is when they feel bulletproof.
Interesting spot.
For my part, I plan for everything and trade what happens.
Being profitable is more important than making bold and clever predictions if you do this for a living.
We may be inside of a crash event to 3000 in SPX.
Read the full case with backlog of historic analysis/forecasts here: holeyprofitnewsletter.substack.com/p/the-case-for-3000-in-spx
Read the full case with backlog of historic analysis/forecasts here: holeyprofitnewsletter.substack.com/p/the-case-for-3000-in-spx
Disclaimer
The information and publications are not meant to be, and do not constitute, financial, investment, trading, or other types of advice or recommendations supplied or endorsed by TradingView. Read more in the Terms of Use.
We may be inside of a crash event to 3000 in SPX.
Read the full case with backlog of historic analysis/forecasts here: holeyprofitnewsletter.substack.com/p/the-case-for-3000-in-spx
Read the full case with backlog of historic analysis/forecasts here: holeyprofitnewsletter.substack.com/p/the-case-for-3000-in-spx
Disclaimer
The information and publications are not meant to be, and do not constitute, financial, investment, trading, or other types of advice or recommendations supplied or endorsed by TradingView. Read more in the Terms of Use.